BEATEN 9-8 - AND PETER HIT ALL EIGHT

The naming of several young Dundonians who played in the Dundee Schoolboys U/15 Select, then went on to play in England’s top division, prompted quite a number of readers to respond after I invited more nominations.

Just a couple of hours after that story went out on February 3, I popped down to meet my good buddy STUART GLADWIN.

“Frannie Munro!” was his first words to me when it is usually, “What are you having?”

Munro was also mentioned by DAVIE WATSON, of, Toronto, Canada.

“I really loved the articles regarding schoolboy players going south,” he emailed. “Frannie went down to play with Wolves.

“I played many times with him when we were both at Butterburn Youth Club.

“Also, Brian Alderson took my inside-left spot in 1967 when I left Lochee Harp to emigrate to Canada.

“And striker John Duncan played a year below me at Butterburn.

“Peter ‘The Shooter’ Lorimer was a right-back when I was playing at right-half in the primary schoolboys select.

“He was also very good at taking goalkicks in these days.

“I remember one particular morning when he played for his school (Stobswell) against my Rockwell team — and we won the game 9-8.

“Peter scored all eight goals for his team.

“Then we came up against each other again in the afternoon when Butterburn played his Broughty team.

“Guess what?

“It was 9-8 again to my team and I’m sure he scored the majority of his side’s goals again.

“Butterburn were a great club with a proud history. I played in two Scottish Cup Finals with them, unfortunately losing both to Drumchapel and Possil.

“One great consolation was that, in those days, our great rivals St Francis never beat us.

“Going back to previous Rock Cup articles in BwB, I was digging through my old scrapbooks when I came across this photo (at foot of column) of Butterburn Primary, who were beaten 2-1 in the final by the dreaded Paulies (SS Peter and Paul) around 1958.”

The quality of Dave’s photo is not great, but it’s worth printing as it contains some legendary names (see caption).

Returning to our original query, and more readers sent in other schoolboy names.

Well-known Dundee FC fan DAVE WEBSTER, who also does sterling work as part of the Lincraig Boys Club committee in Dundee, suggested Ian Britton (Chelsea).

However, I don’t think his other suggestions, Gary Murray and Albert Kidd, played in England’s elite league.

COLIN BARRON also put forward Britton, and offered further contenders such as Mel Holden (Sunderland) and John McPhail (Sheffield United and Sunderland).

John didn’t play in the top league for the Blades, but made one appearance for the Black Cats in 1990-91 when they were in the First Division.

For the remainder of his time at Roker Park, Sunderland were in the lower leagues.

ROBERT BOAG mentioned three of Dundee’s finest sons . . . the McInearney brothers (Tommy and Jimmy) and Jackie Mudie.

Tommy and Jimmy played for Sheffield Wednesday, while Jackie Mudie played for Blackpool “in between Stanley Matthews and Stan Mortenson”.

By “in between”, I presume Robert means playing at inside-right to Matthews’ right-wing position and Mortenson in the centre.

JOE TRONT, from Melbourne, Australia, also mentioned many of the above names, and also offered Willie Lawson (Sheffield Wednesday).

Thanks also to Perth’s BILLY CLARK, NORMAN CLARKE (Leicester) and WILLIE LAMOND (Dundee) who gave similar names.

NO GUARANTEE THEY’D TURN UP

Lochee’s ANDY WALKER writes, “A few weeks back, a reader wrote in regarding the Scottish Cup tie when Dundee United beat Celtic 4-3.

“I don’t think it is true that Celtic players were on £14 a week wages at that time.

“On October 18, 1945, representatives of the players approached club executives and put forward a proposal of £6 a week basic, £2 for a win and £1 for a draw.

“The club rejected this, but offered £4 a week, £2 a win and £1 a draw.

“This was reluctantly accepted.

“The official line was that National Service was still ongoing and players were not guaranteed to turn up.

“Also it was up to the goodwill of Commanding Officers if they appeared to play.

“Players who were in jobs or deferred National Service had to work Saturdays even after the war was finished.

“A basic wage of £14 per week for players was paid to First Division players in England in 1954.

“Changes in Scottish players’ wages only started changing slightly when economic changes happened in the 1950s.”

Returning to that 4-3 win for Dundee United, Andy, very informative on all things Celtic, continued, “The Celtic team that day certainly had Evans, McPhail and Tully playing, but the others were hardly household names.

“The team was — Miller; Boden, Mallen; Evans, McPhail, McAuley; J. Weir, Johnston, Gallagher, Tully, Paton.

“John ‘Jock’ Weir once scored a hat-trick at Dens Park in the so-called ‘relegation game’, but, funnily enough, he’s more remembered for the two goals Celtic were disallowed.

“Dundee players were offered their biggest bonus ever to beat Celtic that day.

“John Paton signed in 1942 and, between then and 1949, he was in the RAF and on loan to eight clubs.

“Pat McAuley was freed two years running, then signed again by Celtic.

“Jackie Gallagher was no relative of William or his brother Tommy (Patsy Gallacher’s sons).

“And, on a quirky note, Leslie Johnson took a size four-and-a-half in boots.

“Of the rest, Miller, Boden and Mallan had up-and-down careers at Celtic Park.”

GOOD PLAYER AND BOXER

JIM MELVILLE, of Dundee, intimated he was interested in the February 3 piece on JIMMY CROLL.

“I remember playing for Dundee Schoolboys and Jimmy Croll was the right-back in that team,” said Jim.

“The game was at Lossiemouth, and Stewart Murdoch and Atholl Kettles, both of Harris Academy, also played in that team.

“I always wondered what happened to Jimmy as I could not remember him playing Junior football, but I also remember him as a boxer.

“I should also say that he was good footballer as well.

“Another article (Feb. 3) you had was of Jimmy Borland playing for Butterburn Youth Club.

“Stewart Murdoch (mentioned above) also played for that team.”

Jim has written to BwB in previous times about Ashdale, and he continues, “The Ashdale boys want another reunion this year and it is my intention to invite all former members of the Boys Football League to attend.

“These teams include Dunkeld, MacRae Boys, Butterburn Boys and many others.

“Perhaps your readers can recall the names of all the other clubs in the boys leagues at that time — in both U/16 and U/18 sections.

“I’ll come back at a later time with a confirmed date for the reunion.”

JOHN SMITH, of Hillside Terrace, Dundee, also responded to the Croll article.

He said, “I read your article about Jimmy, and it saddened me that his son intimated that his dad was in the early stages of Alzheimers.

“I am a year older than Jimmy, and remember him as a teenager, and as a very competent fighter in the ring.

“As I also remember, he was very quiet and, maybe, shy out of the ring.

“If my memory serves me, he later married Evelyn Sturrock, who resided in Arkley Terrace.

“I knew her as a schoolgirl when I used to visit that street to meet with a girlfriend from Stobswell school.

“Evelyn may remember other friends such as Campbell Tainsh, Nancy Pattullo, Ronnie Whitton, Jimmy Reid, Sheena Wilkinson, Moira Hutchison,and Earl Hutchison.

“Most of these lived in Arklay Terrace.

“Unfortunately, I have nothing by way of photographs or cuttings to offer to Jimmy’s son.

“The mental image I have of Jimmy is that of a teenage athlete, and it is as clear as if it was yesterday.”