FATHER-SON COMBINATIONS

DONALD GELLATLY, who, reading between the lines, seems to be a bit of a historian regarding Dundee FC, confirmed that my list of Dundee-Dundee United “swoppees” was correct.

“Having read BwB over the last two weeks, I notice readers are being asked about the players who have moved directly between the Dundee clubs,” he says.

“I’ve been researching post-war Dundee players, and I must congratulate you on getting the list completely correct.

“Every first-team Dundee player to make the move either to or from Tannadice has been named.

“Since I’ve not looked into the history of the Tannadice side, I can’t say for sure that none of Dundee’s reserves played for the United first team.

“There have, of course, been exceptions to the rules in question.

“For example, Michel Pageaud only signed at Dens after he played in a trial game for United.

“Also, players such as Neil Jablonski played for United youth teams before coming to Dens.

“The most popular time to cross the road seemed to be in the 1950s when there was a score of players making the move. This was at a time when football fans in the city often watched both clubs on alternative Saturdays.

“However, I’m going back further than is required.

“To conclude, the list has been completed — from a Dark Blue point of view.”

Lochee’s SANDY DRUMMOND was also keen to list players, but twisting the rules a wee bit to suit his own purpose.

“I’ve come up with a team of players who were with both clubs,” he said.

“In the old 2-3-5 formation, it is — Sandy Davie; Tommy Gray, Dave Gray; Ian Phillip, Doug Cowie, Alex Stuart; Jim McLean, Doug Berrie, Alan Gordon, Gordon Wallace, George “Pud” Hill.

“There could be others such as Kenny Cameron, Kinnaird Ochterlonie, ‘Piper’ Mackay and Doug Houston.”

As I said, Sandy used a bit of licence with his inclusion of manager/coaches such as Jim McLean and Doug Cowie, who never actually played for United, and many of the others went to other clubs before crossing Tannadice Street.

Going down that road, he could also include Ian McCall and Iain Munro, along with coaches Jimmy Bone, Steve Murray, George Mackie, Gordon Chisholm and Jocky Scott.

Again going along these lines, I could name another completely different ‘team.’

In 4-3-3 formation, it is — Billy Thomson; John McQuillan, Lee Mair, John Holt, Stuart Beedie; Rab Shannon, Billy Kirkwood, Ian Redford; James Grady, Billy Dodds, Jim Hamilton.

You can add others such as Steve Murray, Iain Ferguson, Dragutin Ristic and, indeed, many, many more.

However, it’s far healthier just restricting it to first-team players and direct transfers.

And, to conclude, Sandy points out that goalkeeper Sandy Davie actually appeared in a Dundee team group for the trial game for the new season of 1962-63 just after the Dark Blues won the league.

Sandy, though, never played an official game for Dundee and was signed by United from Butterburn Youth Club a few months later.

OLD-TIMER FROM THE HILLTOON also enjoyed the Dundee and Dundee United query, and takes it on a step further.

“We always look forward to your column on Fridays,” he opened. “It causes great debate among my drinking buddies and me.

“On the theme of the recent Dundee/United question, how many father-and-son combinations have played in the first team of both clubs?

“The ones we have are: Dundee — Kenny and Dougie Cameron, Alan and Ian Gilzean, Graeme and Barry Forbes.

“For United, there were Frank and Scott Kopel, Paul and Blair Sturrock.”

The Dundee three are correct and you can also add in Gavin Strachan, son of Gordon Strachan.

For United, Blair Sturrock never played in the first team.

However, with a little help from Peter Rundo, a good friend of the Tele and a walking/talking United historian, we’ve come up with Graham and Ben Honeyman and Jim and Alan Irvine.

Jim was an inside-forward with United in the 1960s, and Alan was the taller of the two Alan Irvines on United’s books in the early 1990s.

Peter also put forward Ian and Willie MacFadyen for United.

“Ian was part of the United team which was promoted in the early 1960s,” revealed Peter.

“Willie was manager at Tannadice around 1954, but not a player.”

As usual, if any reader can add to these lists, just send them in (1950s onwards).

DANNY PLAYED UNDER WORLD CUP WINNER NOBBY STILES

Talking football, as you do, last weekend two names from the past came up.

One was FRANK ESPOSITO, who, of course, is now a director of Dundee FC, and who was once a young player with Dundee United.

The other was DANNY CAMERON, a Dundonian who played most of his senior football career down south.

Frank had the odd game with Broughty Athletic when I was a player at Claypotts, and Danny was also with Butterburn Youth Club, but playing in the younger age group below me.

And, would you believe it, delving into our archives, I found a photo of them together? It was printed in the Evening Telegraph (Friday, April 8)

This particular snapshot was taken in December 1969 and the pair, along with other city footballing starlets DAVID REILLY, PAT PEOPLES and BILLY JONES, were setting off by train to England, to show their paces at Sheffield Wednesday.

Danny, by that time, was already a signed player with the Hillsborough club. In fact, the former Lawside Academy pupil spent eight years with the Owls before moving to Preston North End.

At Deepdale, he played alongside another Dundonian Alec Bruce, and under managers such as former Everton boss Harry Catterick and England World Cup winner Nobby Stiles.

Among his team-mates at Preston were Mark Lawrenson, who went on to become a Liverpool legend and is now a well-known TV pundit.

Danny, of course, also had a brief spell back in his home town in the 1980s, turning out for Dundee.

The last I heard he was playing and coaching football in South Africa.

In the photo, the boys are pictured with FRANK CARLIN, who was secretary at that time with the well-known Club Romano outfit.

DUNDEE BOXERS DIED IN CONFLICT FIGHTING FOR THEIR COUNTRY

MRS M. BISSET, of Pitalpin Court, in Dundee, wants verification of the identity of a young man (his photo was in the Tele on April 8).

“This photo was found recently by my 90-year-old aunt as she was going through some old photos,” said Mrs Bisset.

“She is sure it is MICKEY SOMMERS, a young Dundee boxer, who was killed when the Royal Navy ship The Hood went down during World War Two.

“We would be delighted if any of your BwB readers could verify this.

“My father was Dennis Cahill, another well-known Dundee boxer of his time.

“He was also killed during that war.

“He fell in Normandy in July 1944 and he was just 25.”

FINAL WORD FROM ARCHIE

Here are some more Gaffta Awards — football quotations taken from the Mainstream publication. . .

“I predicted in August that Celtic would reach the final and, on the eve of the final, I stand by that prediction” — Commentator ARCHIE McPHERSON.

“I have a number of alternatives, and each one gives me something different” — GLENN HODDLE.

“If Aston Villa do get a point from this, it will improve their points total” — Commentator TONY GUBBA.

“We probably got on better with the likes of Holland, Belgium, Norway and Sweden, some of whom are not even European” — JACK CHARLTON.

“Football’s football. If that weren’t the case, it wouldn’t be the game that it is” — GARTH CROOKS.

JUTE WORKS FOOTBALLERS REMEMBERED

The photo (below) is the THOMSON & SHEPHERD JUTE WORKS (SEAFIELD) football team from season 1928-29.

It was sent in by reader WILLIAM RAMSAY, of Abbotsford Street, Dundee.

“Both my father and grandfather are in the photo,” said William.

“My father is second from left in the back row, and my grandfather is second from right in the front row.

“There is also a player in the back row called Willie Miller. He is the black player.

“It was reckoned at the time that he was the first-ever black player to play football in Dundee. Willie stayed just around the corner from me in Peddie Street. He was a really good guy.

“He was also reckoned to be a wonderful ballroom dancer.”